Dev Bootcamp

I heavily relied on Course Report reviews when I chose to be part of one of Dev Bootcamp's first cohorts, so I feel obligated to share my own experience. First, there are components of the Austin Dev Bootcamp curriculum of which I was unaware, and when I was aware, I didn't take seriously. I wish in retrospect that I had. 

At the time I attended, the following was all true:
Dev Bootcamp has three assessments throughout the curriculum. If you fail the assessment, you are obligated to repeat. DBC campuses have rolling cohorts that allow students to immediately repeat each phase, but Austin does not. There is an assessment that happens two weeks before the end of Phase 0,  an assessment after the first three weeks of Phase 1, and again at the end of Phase 2. There were a handful of people in our cohort who either chose or were forced by the staff to repeat at the end of Phase 0 or at the end of Phase 2.  The students who repeated Phase 0 had to repeat the nine-week curriculum and wait for the next cohort to start their on-site portion. The students who repeated Phase 2 were forced to drop out of the current cohort, wait a month and half gap period before the next cohort, and instead of simply repeating Phase 2, were forced to start all over again at the beginning of Phase 1. The staff said this was so that all the students could "bond".  

This is necessary information because you may be a student who passes the assessments and feels confident in their knowledge, but if you do not, I would advise planning now whether you can afford the financial and logistical repercussions of voluntarily or forcibly being held back.

Second is the Engineering Empathy "EE" sessions. I deeply wish I had taken seriously some of the earlier Course Report reviews on Dev Bootcamp, which cautioned that both students and facilitators were not prepared to handle the serious nature and depth of the EE topics. Now that I experienced the sessions, I agree that they are great in theory, but counterproductive in practice, especially if you are a marginalized person in tech. As a woman, I found the way in which some were handled, particularly the discussion on microaggressions, distressing in a way that distracted me from learning to code. The discussions inevitably had the predominantly white, male members of our cohort questioning the two women about their experiences and asking them to justify their experiences. This also led to another big issue, the fact that we didn't address intersectionality or discuss anything besides straight white women in our microagressions discussion. I left feedback for the campus to start having the licensed counselor on staff facilitate these discussion and be in charge of creating safe spaces, as opposed to having a teacher wantonly naming "safe spaces" and facilitating off-the-cuff discussions. 

In terms of teaching methodologies, I appreciated the idea behind having little instruction and prompting students to directly jump into new challenges and figure them out, as that's what we'll be doing in our careers. However, as a beginner coder I felt like I spun my wheels more than was necessary. I know that DBC prides itself in a vetted curriculum, but I learned more skills when I finally gave myself permission to stray from some daily solo and team challenges to do what I needed to learn. Once I started doing what I had to do for myself and not relying on last-minute DBC breakout sessions, I felt I gained a lot more tools in my coding tool belt with which to work. I also felt I gained a deeper understanding of the code I was writing.

Job placement does not exist at DBC. The staff will help you with professional preparation, but I barely utilized these tools or found them helpful when I got my full-time development job. I had other resources to work with, such as my alma matter and local mentors, so I'm not sure what it would be like to only rely on DBC for help getting jobs.

There were great perks to the curriculum, such as an on-site counselor and weekly yoga classes. I took advantage of both and greatly appreciated them. The EE sessions on communication with senior developers were helpful when it came time for me in my work to pair with seniors or ask for feedback during code reviews. The curriculum is as extensive as it can be in the little amount of time that you are there, and Ruby on Rails is a very accessible language to beginners.

I feel DISCRIMINATED AGAINST at DEV BOOTCAMP, SF.  I was asked to leave the program because I was not learning fast enough, according the the staff.

3/2/17 (Thurs)

At about 5:30pm in the afternoon, I was advised by Walker (dev bootcamp director) and witness by Stan (instructor/mentor) that I will no longer be with dev bootcamp and they are kicking me out of the program.  They had made a decision that I will not be able to repeat and says that I will not keep up with the rest of the students if I refactor.  So therefore I will not be offered a refactor chance at phase 2.  This is after my first attempt at Phase 2 of the program.  All students were advise that each one of us would have at least one chance to refactor (redo) on each of the Phase in the program.  I have pleaded to the director and stated that I deserved another chance at this, I feel real good about the material and that I do have test anxiety and I don’t do well under pressure.  I stressed that I have not had a second chance at phase 2 and asked why I was singled out in the program and prohibited from a 2nd chance while the nearly half of my classmates were given another opportunity.  Mr. Walker kept on stressing that my gap was too far and I will not make it on the repeat.  I plead and plead for another opportunity, and had mention that there are other 19-25 year olds in my class didn’t try at all and had done worst than me on the assessment, why are they allow to repeat and not me?  I’m currently 43 years old.  What have I done wrong to deserve this?  Is it because of my age?  My looks?  My ethnicity?  What is it?  

I could not figure it out, he just kept saying I was not a good fit for dev bootcamp.  I don’t believe they have ever dismissed someone after the first attempt at a phase and I was the first one to do so. I have also stressed to him that I have stayed late, and nearly came in 7 days a week during the whole phase 2 studies.  There was a lot of material to be covered and I kept on telling him that I have a good grasp on the concepts and all I have to do is work on the implementation a bit and I’m right on pace.  He would not listen to me at all and ask for my key back.  So I left.

During that whole entire evening, I was extremely upset.  I have started to smoke again after quitting for about 3 months, snapping at my children for no reason and could not focus on anything.  While trying to get some rest, I popped up at around 2-3am and could not sleep for a few hours and woke my wife up to say, “I’m gonna fight them to get me back into the program”.

That same evening, I have wrote the director an email:

Hi Walker,

I really think it's unfair for you to give others a chance at phase 2 and not me.  I have done nothing wrong, DBC is a learning institution and you are suppose to teach us as students.  I was promised an adviser that will track my process during my phase 2 and advise on the items and the areas that I need to improve on and I was not provided that.  Everyone that I know of has a second chance at phase 2 and I was denied the opportunity to do so.  I might not have been great at explaining the codes, but I do believe and know for a fact that I have more knowledge than some of my cohort mates and they were given another opportunity to learn more.  

You can actually randomly select anyone in phase 2 and ask them if I was the worst coder in the phase.  Why am I getting dismissed?   Learning institutions are suppose to provide and assist students in their learning process.  I might have misunderstood the questions of my code reviewer or might have forgotten what the term of the variable or function that she has asked me about.  So teach me, give me a chance to understand better.

Going into phase 2, I was a little worried, but finishing the 3 weeks, I felt really good about understanding the concept of CRUD, Sinatra and Ajax.  I might have had a bit of miscues on JavaScript, but DBC is not giving me an opportunity to get better at it.  You are denying me even an opportunity to repeat phase 2 and that is very unfairt.  There are other students that repeated all phases and I'm just simply being denied the chance.  I would really love a chance to complete the DBC training.

Thank you for your consideration.

Tony Wu.

3/3/17 (Fri)

At about 9am, I went to dev bootcamp to speak to Walker.  Again, I stressed I deserve a 2nd chance and I would like to prove it to everyone that I can still learn the material.  I told him, dev bootcamp is like family, you and the staff are like parents, us students are like children.  I asked him, if your child is having problems learning a subject or a lesson you are trying to teach her, would you just kick her out the door after the first try?  Or would find another way to teach her, maybe try a different angle or just give her a little bit more time.  At this point he was still stressing that the gap was too big and that I will not succeed on the second try.  Yet again, I mention the other 2 younger students who didn’t do or understand anything at all was given a 2nd chance and not me.  I asked, why are you discriminating against me?  After pleading my case for another 10-15 minutes, he decided to reopen my case for the staff/instructors review to see if another chance would be awarded to me.  He said he will get back to me in the afternoon with the outcome of the meeting.  After that, I went home to wait for the decision.  

At around 4:58pm, I received an email from Walker:

Hi Tony,

Thank you again for reaching out regarding your assessment results.

As promised, the staff has reviewed your case and we've determined that you will be allowed to repeat Phase 2.  The decision was largely based on new information related to cultural components (e.g the 3 agreements) with no alteration of our concerns regarding your technical performance.  

It's important to convey that you will still have a significant gap to close on your technical skills and this may prove to be insurmountable over the next few weeks. That said, we expect you to bring 100% to the effort to succeed.  In that sense, I can tell you that we'll bring 100% as well and will offer you the same support that we offer all of our students in their efforts to succeed.  We will also hold you to the same standards culturally and technically.

We look forward to seeing you on Monday morning and hope that this news will brighten your weekend.  

Sincerely,

_walker

I was extremely excited on receiving the news that I get to continue my education at DBC.  I appreciated all my classmates that had pull for me during the all school standups and personally going into Walker’s office to tell him that I deserve another chance.  I was so grateful that all my friends had pull for me.  They had told me that students from all phases (1,2,3) had spoke about me and don’t believe I deserve to be kicked out of the program.  That same evening I went to the graduation celebration of the phase 3 students and was just thanking everyone I can see for the 2nd chance.  When I shook one of the instructor’s hand at the celebration, my friend told me what he had said in the all school standup in the morning when they were telling walker to give me another chance at phase 2.  This instructor made comments like “Why are you guys standing up for someone that plays ping pong and lays on the couch all the time?  They don’t deserve to be here.”  This really crushed my heart and soul.  I had thought that all the staff/instructors really feel like I deserve another chance to learn and would be there to help me on this journey.  At that point, I knew it was all the pressure from the students that had brought me back to DBC.  I was so grateful and really don’t know how to repay them.  I know I have made friends for life.  On the other hand, I have a great amount of anger towards all the instructors and staff.  I felt betrayed, hated and seems to be public enemy number 1 in the staffs/instructors eyes, because they wanted me to be out of the program and forced to keep me in due to the pressure from all students who supported me.  We had went to an after party that evening, and things did not sit well with me at all, I was torn up inside again.

Over the weekend (3/4/17 - 3/5/17)

I was feeling of angry, disappointed, and distorted.  I couldn’t believe what had just happened, how can one of the instructors make such an accusation about me.  Saying that I’m lazy and did not put in the effort and tried my best.  I had truly believe and lived the entire culture of DBC, to be kind to one another, learn at your own pace, we are all here to support you at any given time.  I got to say, most of the student were sold on the idea of the culture.  Over the whole entire weekend, I had mixed feelings about the entire program, do I still want to be part of this learning environment?  Are these people really willing to teach me?  Will they prejudge me and my abilities?  Will they be fair to me on my assessments?  Am I just allowed a 2nd chance because I deserve it or because of the pressure from all the other students who supported me?  My feelings of anger had grew in such a way that I couldn’t have imagined.  I had found myself yelling and screaming at my children for no reason and the constant depressed state was taking over me.  I could not focus on anything.

3/6 (Monday)

At my distressed state, I went back to the program and tried to focus once again on my studies.  My feeling of abandonment, stress, depression, and hatred had grew.  I knew I need to get this out of my system if I want to refocus and be successful in the program.  So I had booked the earliest appointment to see the in house counselor.  I told *rianna, the counselor what I was feeling and what was going on with me.  She had encourage me to let it out and think of the positive points and not be negative.  She told me I should think about all the people in the school who believes in me and try to move forward.  I stress to her that the negative feeling toward the whole situation and the staff was disappointed.  After breaking down to her in the private session, I went back to the sessions to give it another try.  Every time I walked by any of the instructors, the thought of them trying to kick me out pops up into my head.  Before this had happen, I’m one of the most cheerful person in the school.  I felt like I still have to be nice and put on a fake grin whenever I cross anyone’s path.  Inside, it was really hurting me.  The instructor for my new phase was actually the instructor who made the accusation that I was always playing ping pong and lounging in the couches.  In his open floor talks, he stressed that he will stand up to anyone who works hard help them as much as he can.  In back of my mine, I call ‘bullshit’.  All day, I was dreading being in the place.

3/7/17 (Tue)

The night before, I could not focus at all on my studies or anything at all.  Much like the previous few days.  I had decided to confront the instructor about his allegations on me.  When I confronted him in his office, he tried to play it off and says the statement wasn’t pointing towards me.  I didn’t not believe him for a minute, he looks to be the type that will throw you in the fire and let you burn.  Actually, I can’t say that because I have just met the guy, but I do not believe a word he says.  Once again, I kept trying to focus and was not very successful at it.  At this point, my distraction had really grown to a point where I couldn’t concentrate at all.  There was not an ounce of happiness in my soul that I can conjure up to be in this space with all these instructors that are suppose to help me learn.  I have stayed and tried once again to find the positive energy in my cohort mates so I can move forward with the program.  Once more, I was dreading the place.  When I got home, I found myself yelling and screaming at my 8 year old because she didn’t practice his piano lessons.  Lecturing my teenager about finding his career focus earlier in life and not turning out to be like myself.

3/8/17 (Wed)

The feeling had not changed so I wanted to see the in house counselor again and try to submerge these negative feelings and get back into focus so I can hopefully achieve my goals of becoming a software developer one day.  During this 2nd session with *rianna, the counselor, I had explained to her that the feelings towards the staff had not gotten better.  I explained to her that the feeling had gotten worst.  I told her what I was feeling.  It felt like all the instructors had surrounded me in a circle, with all of them lifting their feet and try to crush me while I’m right in the middle of it.  I had also told her how it was affecting my life at home as well.  Once again, she told me to lean on my cohort mates for support.  After the meeting, I talked to a few of my closer cohort mates to explain my situation and feelings.  They told me to just drop the ill feelings towards the instructors and do this for myself and for my family.  It felt good to have the support of all my friends.  I power through the day with their amazing support.  

3/9/17 (Thur)

Going back to class had been a challenge all week.  Especially difficult with the instructor who had accused me of my actions and trying to listen to him do talks.  Constant rushes going through in my head that these instructors don’t really care and I not even sure if they even like being there in the first place.  It felt like they were all trying to put on a show themselves.  They all try to say how good it felt when the students get a concept and the lights go off in their head when they get it.  I was asking myself, what about the students who didn’t get it, have you thought about why they don’t get it?  Is it maybe because you are not showing them in a way that they can’t comprehend?  I had compared it to myself when I try to show my children something new.  If they don’t get it the first time, I don’t think they are stupid, I just think to myself, how can I present it in a way that they can comprehend better.  That’s just how I think being a teacher should handle the situation.  Instead, these so call teachers are trying to kick me out after one try at it and not have to bother with me while I had paid over $10,000 for them to teach me.  At the end of Thursday, all my energy trying to put my feeling aside and keep learning from the institution had taken a toll on me.  After the EE (engineering empathy) session, I had told some of my cohort mates that I might not be able to stay in this institution any longer.

3/10/17 (Fri)

After Thursday, I need some time to think and reassess my stay with DBC.  So I took the day off from the program to figure out and weight the situation.  All week, I was not able to focus and it was having a toll on me and my well being.  I took the day to think about how I can possibly make this work or just leave the program.

3/13 (Mon)

After thinking about how I had felt for the week and what my feelings towards the staff, I had booked one final session with the counselor (*rianna).  I wanted to say farewell to her and thank her for the support during my previous week’s sessions.  At the session, I stress to her that there’s no way that I can stay in this environment, get discriminated against, and be focus at the same time.  Every time I walked by any instructor, there’s was still that hatred towards them.  The thought of them wanting to kick me out of the program stuck to my head.  I just can’t shake it off.  So after the session with the counselor, I gave the card key back to the director and said I just can’t trust that the staff will dedicate themselves to support me.

I FEEL BETRAYED, DESERTED, AND DISCRIMINATED AGAINST.  If there’s any out there that can help me, please drop me a line.

Email:  discriminated.against.me@gmail.com

Dev Bootcamp is good for beginners wanting to learn how to code. I liked the environment, very friendly towards diversity and soft skills. The curriculum is good, but the instructors do not do as many lectures as they could have. We had to ask for lectures, which was odd for me because I expected there would be lectures on almost every new topic. They have a "hands-off" approach style of curriculum, which is good for some with previous experience, but as a beginner I would like to have lectures prior to doing assignments. They are very accommodating, as they change the curriculum and get feedback every week on how to improve. The mentors are sometimes more knowledgeable than the instructors which was kinda weird. Most of the instructors are very knowledgeable, but they need to hire more people who worked in the industry for a longer time. The engineering empathy was fantastic, I like the emphasis of people skills especially when working on teams. I liked that they promoted agile methodologies. They have events in the space a lot which was great. Overall experience was okay, but if you're looking for a job right now I'd recommend learning the MEAN stack and to choose a school using JS for front end and back end, if you are looking for a great intro to Web Dev + programming using Ruby I'd recommend Dev Bootcamp. 

Pros: The best thing about DBC was the teachers and mentors. They were well-qualified, friendly, and motivating. The second best thing was the curriculum. I felt that the exercises and projects that were required for us to complete were good at illustrating important concepts and building real skills relevant to web development. The third best thing was the environment set by my cohort. Many of them were my healthy competition, as well as fun and interesting people to be around.

Cons: They need to hire a really competent OM. Some times, events and the space in general seemed disorganized. Further, there needs to be more emphasis on data structures and algorithms while students are going through the program. It could be really simple - like just requiring that students solve one algorithm problem per day.

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After graduating, the careers team really went above and beyond to help me. I was motivated by their hustle to work hard in my job search, and it paid off. BOOTCAMP =/= JOB. You CANNOT coast. You must, MUST bust your ass, but hopefully you already knew this.

What Dev Bootcamp does not tell you upfront is a large portion of the students don't complete the program because they get kicked out for not passing an assessment after 6 weeks. In fact, many do not even make it to the onsite portion of the course. Yes, they tell you in some fine print on the website and when you sign documents that some students may need to retake a section, but they do not make it clear what percentage of students actually get kicked out. If they were clear about that you might go to a different bootcamp and then they would not get to keep a portion of your tuition, something like $2500. You get an email saying "you've been removed from the program, effective immediately" and there's no further discussion about it. 

The first 9 weeks is taught by TA's who have never taught before having just finished the course and are managing dozens of students online so the student to teacher ratio is really high. They do this to keep costs low and maximize profits. Your time to ask questions is over an online chat with a dozen other students asking different questions about the curriculum. It's a little chaotic and it's all wrapped up in this 'empathy' mask. 

This is the real problem with Dev Bootcamp (an many bootcamps for that matter), a total lack of transparency. A 90% hiring rate sounds sexy, but that can mean a lot of different things. It means an internship after 6 months, working as a TA partime for the bootcamp, a job you get through your cousin's friend's company in a role other than programming, or freelancing here and there. It's very misleading. Yes, it may work out for a good number of people after perserverance, but I'm betting there's a lot more people it doesn't work out for. Its a very lucrative business without a lot of transparency or regulation.  Be very careful what you think you're getting here. Keep your expectations in check. 

This was one of the most mentally and emotionally challenging things I've done in my life, but also one of the most rewarding. I was ready to put myself on a new career path that would ensure that I was always challenged, and always growing. Dev Bootcamp's immersive program crams a TON of development fundamentals into your brain in a short amount of time. You're always being pushed beyond your comfort zone, which when you're able to look back and see how much you've learned, is an excellent approach to teaching. As you near the end of the curriculum, they'll take the training wheels off and much of your progress will be up to you in terms of area of focus (languages, frameworks, industry of focus, etc). While this was frustrating at first, it became apparent why that was the case as I began my job hunt. After recently landing a job as a software engineer, knowing how to research and continue learning seems as important as the basics they teach you. Overall, a great experience. If you decide to enroll, work as hard as you can and own your education.

I'd been in positions dabbling in code for 10 years or so, and I entered Dev Bootcamp wanting to learn more and change my career to focus on coding and development more seriously. It was an intense 9 weeks, but one of the most rewarding of my life. My cohort was small compared to many others, but we bonded tightly and took care of each other to make sure everyone made it and understood all the concepts. We invented extra projects, gave each other additional breakout sessions, and later helped each other through the tedious job search process. The instructors were incredibly passionate and engaged. The whole experience helped me break down a lot of my difficulty with asking for help and seeking feedback -- it's still difficult sometimes, but I've grown a lot as a person in general from being in a place with that emphasis.

Dev Bootcamp is well worth it if you can handle the difficulty. It won't be a walk in the park, mind you. There were plenty of nights when I'd come home brain fried and there was plenty of drama with my cohort-mates during final projects.

But I made new friends, learned a new difficult skill quickly, and got a high-paying job out of it. For that, I'd say it was well worth the price tag and sort of paid for itself. If you're damn sure you wanna be a web developer, I would take the plunge with DBC. It's well-taught and if you apply yourself you'll get a nice new career with a shiny new salary out of it.

I consider Dev Bootcamp one of the best decisions I have made in my life.

I really shopped around and read a ton of reviews before choosing a Bootcamp.  It is a huge decision, financially and otherwise.  I personally do not think Dev Bootcamp was worth what I paid.  You constantly feel like you are being rushed through the program instead of actually being taught.  It feels like you are just money coming through the door instead of a student that is risking so much to learn a new trade. The assessments are not indicative of what you actually know.  It is easy to look at past work or Github's and pass the assessment. The skills you learn here do not set you up well for a new job. Period.

Now, I did get a job as a junior dev shortly after graduating the bootcamp but this required SO MUCH EXTRA WORK where I basically taught myself everything. I feel like I could have taken the months I spent at Dev Bootcamp, stayed at home and done web tutorials and would be MORE prepared than I was from the $$$ Bootcamp. 

While I was a student the staff was going through some major changes which definitely affected my the experience.  Multiple people quit, and the people that remained were constantly on vacation, sick or just gone for some reason. You get the feeling that they are not at all invested. Then you get stuck having to learn from a previous student who can't find a job and basically knows no more than you do.

What I will say about DBC is the career team is AWESOME.  They set up an awesome week with speakers and workshops and really are so incredibly helpful. Special shout out to Molly who you can just tell really wants to help you and makes the job search exciting instead of daunting.  

Dev Bootcamp's model is essentially giving you too many problems to complete in a day while paired up with another boot. If everyone in the cohort is struggling on a specifc problem then the instructor will go over it, otherwise they have done away with lectures altogether. I personally think $14,000 is a lofty price to pay to simply be handed some problems to work on with little to no instruction. I hope going forward that they will improve this model by being more involved. I've spoken to people who have attended other bootcamps where the morning is spent 2 hours in lectures and the remainder of the day is spent pair programming on relevant problems. I would do your research and make sure you know what you want out of a bootcamp and make sure their curriculum aligns. 

I was also disappointed with the careers team, but really didn't have my hopes up in the first place. Other bootcamps post their stats on percentage of grads getting jobs after graduation and average salary, Dev Bootcamp doesn't and I think there's a reason for this. 

Everything aside, the instructors are brilliant at what they do, it would just be nice if they were more involved (I don't think this is their fault, just think DBC's model doesn't allow for this). 

As a note, in San Francisco I think employers are getting less and less open to hiring bootcamp grads, so if you are going to choose one, make sure you put in the time to get into the right one. At the end of the day they will always hire someone with a CS degree over a bootcamp grad. 

I found Dev Bootcamp through a friend. Before I even considered it, he told me one thing that remains true to this day: you get out what you put in. After only a few days on site, it became abundantly clear who would go on to become a great developer and who would struggle. If you expect instructors to spoon feed you best practices, they won't. If you think you can coast through doing the bare minimum and then find a job, good luck. The people writing scathing 1-star reviews are struggling probably because they spend their time complaining and writing lengthy reviews instead of coding. That being said, here are some pros and cons:

Pros

• Their open teaching style allows students to focus on what they really want to be learning. 
• Empathy Engineering helps programmers become better employees and hone their interpersonal skills (because, god, do some of you need it).

Cons

• Career prep is basically non-existent.  It's one week of lectures that anyone with experience in the professional world already knows.
• They hire former students, kind of a conflict of interest in my opinion. One of the weakest people in my cohort struggled to find a job and then became an interviewer. How a person who could not get a job after Dev Bootcamp is qualified to vet prospective students is beyond me. 

Cons about code schools in general

The fact that there is an entire website dedicated to just code school reviews should tell you something: there are a lot. There were not many at all just a few years ago. All these bootcamps popping up are flooding the market with inexperienced developers and employers are taking notice. I think the most useful apsect of any bootcamp is not the 'quality' but rather the fact that you took ~20 weeks to just code and nothing else.